Evan Dumas 

You’re listening to Group Practice Tech, a podcast by Person Centered Tech, where we help mental health group practice owners ethically and effectively leverage tech to improve their practices. I’m your co-host, Evan Dumas.

 

Liath Dalton 

And I’m Liath Dalton, and we are Person Centered Tech.

 

Liath Dalton 

This episode is brought to you by Therapy Notes. Therapy Notes is a robust online practice management and electronic health record system to support you in growing your thriving practice. Therapy Notes is a complete practice management system with all the functionality you need to manage client records, meet with clients remotely, create rich documentation, schedule appointments and bill insurance all right at your fingertips. To get two free months of Therapy Notes as a new Therapy Notes user go to therapynotes.com and use promo code PCT.

 

Evan Dumas 

Hello and welcome to Episode 606: Being Findable in an AI-Shaped Referral World.

 

Liath Dalton 

This topic is so important, and our discussion of it was really precipitated by a couple different things. I mean, first, it’s been an emerging trend across different profession types and business sectors that they have started to see an uptick in referral sources actually being AI tools, primarily ChatGPT, but then simultaneously, there has been a lot of chatter on different forums and Facebook groups, and LinkedIn, and Reddit, and so on about Psychology Today, in particular, having basically precipitous drops in clicks and prospective client contacts and that sort of thing.

 

Liath Dalton 

And they’re, coinciding with that has been a little bit of chatter of well, there also is this sort of dominance in this space now by a lot of the practice management services organizations like Rula and Grow Therapy, Alma, Headway, et cetera, et cetera, who manage clinician profiles, and speculation that there has been sort of a deal to feature those profiles, those managed profiles over the regular therapists who aren’t affiliated with those organizations.

 

Evan Dumas 

Mhm.

 

Liath Dalton 

It’s noteworthy that to date, Psychology Today is denying that that is the case, saying nothing, nothing has changed, but people are seeing these major drops across provider type, like specialty type, region, it’s not just sort of limited to one niche of provider type within the therapist community.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

Right. So what, what does all of that mean? Essentially, Psychology Today is no longer the dominant referral pathway, and referrals are fragmented. And I should say, what I’m focusing, we’re focusing on online referral sources.

 

Liath Dalton 

Little side note to that, is that we really want to simultaneously be emphasizing the importance and value of your actual relationship network and relationship partner, like community based referrals from other providers, physicians who may be in medical practices, who are more likely to be working with your ideal client and the population that you serve, emergency room, psych departments, etc. There are a lot of ways to make those connections, nurture them, and they are just as if not more valuable than the online referral sources.

 

Evan Dumas 

Oh, definitely.

 

Liath Dalton 

But today, we’re talking about the online referral sources. But I don’t want to address this topic without specifically naming how truly vital those relationship network referral sources are. And don’t want anyone to deprioritize those in the face of what’s changing in the landscape for online referral sources.

 

Evan Dumas 

Mhm.

 

Liath Dalton 

Okay, sidebar over.

 

Liath Dalton 

Basically the online referral sources are getting a lot more fragmented across different platforms, like the ones I just mentioned that are practice management service organizations, as far as how they market to clinicians, but then are also marketing to prospective clients, as you know, having the right therapist for every, everybody and everyone, basically right?

 

Evan Dumas 

Mhm, yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

Then increasingly, there are insurance referral tools that will, based on your plan, look for the therapist that has the soonest opening that’s in network for you, that sort of thing. Of course, Google remains a factor, and then what we’re really seeing a major uptick in are these AI assisted searches. Don’t want to leave off the traditional directory platforms either, but there is a big uptick in AI assisted searches, where clients are using AI earlier in the decision process, basically.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

And some of the reason for that is that we’re getting information and reports of folks asking ChatGPT or another AI tool, things like, what sort of therapist should I be looking for? What kind of therapy would be most helpful for me, and providing context to the AI tool, and then asking after, a recommendation for sort of, type of therapist and type of therapy modality, then asking for specific recommendations that fit that criteria.

 

Liath Dalton 

So this is, of course, really impactful for practices that have built their referral sources and sort of marketing around a single discovery channel, and that in the current landscape really means that it’s a fragile system,

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

and it’s broken for a lot of people. And we’ve been hearing a panic from from folks, understandably so, about this. Is it working? It worked for my colleagues, like folks who are new to practice are saying, all of my colleagues who’ve been in the field longer, say this is how they built their practices up, and what they were experiencing once they had a profile presence, but nothing’s happening for me, or I’ve only got one or two, and then folks who have been established for a long time, who previously had a great number of clicks and prospective client contacts through Psychology Today are now seeing that dry up.

 

Liath Dalton 

So this is really, though, an issue of, kind of, sustainability. This isn’t a failure of any of you as as clinicians,

 

Evan Dumas 

No.

 

Liath Dalton 

And want to make that super clear. Because the the landscape changed and changed really rapidly, and so now it’s just a matter of adapting. But in the process of adapting, there are some really important do’s and don’ts. And that’s really what we’re going to focus on, because this isn’t about trying to game AI and the algorithms.

 

Evan Dumas 

No.

 

Liath Dalton 

If anything, the most important thing is to stay as clearly human as possible in this context.

 

Evan Dumas 

Exactly, exactly.

 

Liath Dalton 

And for a multitude of reasons, but including for how the AI tools then perceive your presence. So a couple of things to go over before we get into those do’s and don’ts related to AI tools, and we’re going to be focusing on ChatGPT, just because that’s the most predominantly used one at this point.

 

Evan Dumas 

Mhm.

 

Liath Dalton 

So ChatGPT, of course, not a directory.

 

Evan Dumas 

Nope.

 

Liath Dalton 

 It doesn’t rank paid listings.

 

Evan Dumas 

Nope.

 

Liath Dalton 

It doesn’t choose therapists. What does it do, Evan?

 

Evan Dumas 

It just scours the web and creates words in a way that kind of makes sense. And so,

 

Liath Dalton 

Kind of.

 

Evan Dumas 

in that way, yeah, wants to be helpful and cheerful, and will always try to be engaging. 

 

Liath Dalton 

Right. And so really, what we want to be looking at, though, is not, how do you get your practice recommended by AI, but this is, this is the essential framing: Is my work understandable to someone who doesn’t already know me?

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

And then have that be clearly and consistently articulated across your professional web presence.

 

Evan Dumas 

Mhm.

 

Liath Dalton 

Not just clarity, but also consistency, is something that we are aware that AI tools look for in terms of how they sort of prioritize or feedback the results when they’re scouring what’s available on the internet, right?

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

Okay, so we’re going to kind of quickly go through this practical do’s and don’ts for being findable, and the full list is going to be included in the show notes for you to go through chunk by chunk.

 

Liath Dalton 

So just starting out on do number one, build your clarity before your visibility. So this is about being clear about who you help, what you help with, and what working with you is actually like. And I cannot emphasize this part enough: use human language, not professional shorthand.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

And this is something that folks like Kat Love from Empathysites and Empathycopy, which specializes in serving therapists and creating effective, ethical, aligned websites that are going to help connect you with your ideal client, where there is the right fit for each of you, that this is super important. That especially if you, ironically enough, try to use AI help you write copy for how you’re presenting yourself to prospective clients, that it can get really cluttered with professional shorthand and lose that clarity and human relatability.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

So that is the the number one piece of of guidance. And then the number one don’t is trying to be everything to everyone.

 

Evan Dumas 

Oh, yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

Oh my goodness. How many times do we see that Evan, when we’re looking at practice websites or directory listings?

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah, and I just, I can, as a previous therapist, I can just smell the anxiety behind a profile like that, where they write down how they help everyone with everything. And I’m like, Oh, do you even know yourself? Like, that’s impossible. Like, I come on. Like, I’m looking for someone who would work with me and my special thing, and it’s just too, too appeasing to everyone.

 

Liath Dalton 

Right. So you don’t want to be just providing a laundry list of the diagnoses that you work, work with.

 

Evan Dumas 

Like, everything in the DSM. Yeah, you don’t want, that.

 

Liath Dalton 

And I’ve seen some where they’re, like, upwards of 40 listed.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yep, yep.

 

Liath Dalton 

No, that’s not someone, that’s not someone who is going to be able to specialize is in exactly what it is I’m looking for.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah, that’s a quantity over quality situation.

 

Liath Dalton 

Right.

 

Liath Dalton 

So you don’t want to say things like, I work with all ages and all issues. Is that going to bring you your ideal client? Very likely not, right? Or modality name dropping without explanation.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah, yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

Even though someone may be looking for a particular modality, you want to be explaining like, why do you practice this modality? How does it help people? How do you apply it. Really translating it so that people can have as much of a felt experience of how working with you is going to be and is going to provide support for the needs that they are seeking support around, right?

 

Evan Dumas 

Mhm.

 

Liath Dalton 

And the specificity doesn’t mean exclusion, right?

 

Evan Dumas 

No.

 

Liath Dalton 

It just means a better fit. So I think the having a real identity that is based around a true specialty and niche, and thinking, what is, what does my ideal client look like? How, how do I communicate effectively to them in real terms, not jargon, is the most important thing.

 

Liath Dalton 

It’s also really imperative, now we’re on to do number two, to have a website that you control.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

So your professional web presence should not solely be in directory listings.

 

Evan Dumas 

No, oh, no.

 

Liath Dalton 

Absolutely not.

 

Liath Dalton 

You want a basic site that clearly states who you help, your approach, your license and location, how to contact you, like if you’re doing in person or telehealth or both, what areas you can work on, work in, if you’re doing you know telehealth and any cross jurisdictional practice as well.

 

Liath Dalton 

This is not something that requires fancy funnels or SEO tricks. I know SEO has been like a buzzword for a while, and classic SEO does not translate to AI, nor does it translate, honestly, to the way that the Google search results algorithms have changed over the course of the last year, due to AI and just how quickly the landscape is shifting.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

I like this framing of this too. If a human can’t quickly understand your work, an AI tool won’t either.

 

Evan Dumas 

No. And even then, it’s a toss of a coin.

 

Liath Dalton 

Right. So that leads into don’t number two, which is, don’t let a single directory be your entire online presence. This is sort of the mirror image of the make sure you have a practice website that you control. So in the, in this context, a directory listing can still be useful, but it shouldn’t be your only digital professional footprint. This is very much something we talk about in the context of HIPAA compliance and risk management. Is just that any single point of failure is risky.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

And that’s the case whether we’re talking about data security, or referrals, or anything, honestly.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah. That’s a table with one leg. That’s, that’s, not very, not very stable.

 

Liath Dalton 

No, you don’t want to be having to yourself try to provide the other three legs for the table.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah, bouncing constantly.

 

Liath Dalton 

No, no, absolutely not. One thing though, that is important, we know, related to how AI then sort of assesses your digital professional footprint, is looking for consistency across where you have a presence.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

So you don’t want to have like different profiles or different areas of your professional web presence, having really different content, where it comes across as like there isn’t clarity or consistency here, this is someone, you know, trying to be everything to everyone, or trying to provide specificity, but specificity that doesn’t align, if you you know don’t, don’t have a core theme that is really evident across the different places where you have that web presence. So get real clarity and confidence in how you describe your work and distill that down to a few phrases that really clearly articulate that and are accessible, and use that consistently.

 

Evan Dumas 

Exactly. And I recommend, if you’re having a hard time with this, which so many have a hard time, across industries, of writing their like artist statement or their dating profile bio, talk to a friend and, a peer, someone who knows your practice, and have them reflect what they see in the work that you’re doing. Because they’ll generally have a less judgmental viewpoint, and more positive of what you’re doing. So then you can base your bio on that.

 

Liath Dalton 

Absolutely. And I think it is kind of a truth of the human condition that that one of the most uncomfortable tasks can be writing that bio and trying to can, like, distill who you are and how you show up in the world into something concise, and that is going to be put out there.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

It’s, it’s, I don’t think it’s anybody’s favorite task. And I think most people find it to be, to be challenging, so that’s fantastic guidance Evan.

 

Evan Dumas 

Mhmm.

 

Liath Dalton 

Which, which then also leads us into don’t number three, which is about constantly tweaking yourself and how you present yourself online to try and like, chase the algorithm.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

Changing your wording really frequently isn’t an effective strategy.

 

Evan Dumas 

No.

 

Liath Dalton 

Movement in your different places of web presence and digital footprint don’t equal effectiveness.

 

Evan Dumas 

No.

 

Liath Dalton 

So once, once you have that all important, like how I work, what I work with, and who I work with, what it’s like to work with me, clarified and conveyed effectively, then it’s it’s doing what going to do, what it is supposed to do and needs to do. It’s not something that you want to just keep fiddling with over and over. Of course, that’s not to say that you can’t iterate or have refinements, but you want those refinements to be based on what makes it more authentic or more effective, more reflective of exactly the the clarity that you have about those things and how to convey it, not because you’re iterating hope, hoping that the the tweak is going to, like, crack the algorithm.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah. And if you’re just fresh out of school or out of an agency and wanting to start your own practice and you don’t know who you are or who you want to work with, don’t make a website. Like, don’t put it out there till you, till you have this knowledge, but then you can be consistent and stable, and you won’t find yourself every week or so going and tweaking the language and things like that, which only further confuses people looking to find and work with you.

 

Liath Dalton 

Absolutely.

 

Liath Dalton 

So getting a little bit more specific about that in terms of the next do, which is to explain your work like a human.

 

Evan Dumas 

Mhm, exactly.

 

Liath Dalton 

And again, we’ve used these phrases several times, of like what to expect from therapy with me as as sort of what you want your main anchor to be. But other examples, like if you’re a trauma informed therapist, would be how trauma informed therapy works, or how I help clients with a particular issue.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

And this is actually calls back to something that both Kelly and Miranda from Zynnyme, who have a lot of marketing knowledge, talked about, which is helping your ideal and right fit client find you isn’t just about marketing, it’s about access.

 

Evan Dumas 

Mhm, yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

So it is, is part of the care that you are providing as a clinician. Evan I – oh, sorry, go ahead.

 

Evan Dumas 

Oh no, it’s, it’s true and honest communication. Because often we’ll think of marketing as sales and influencing and getting people to convert to customers. Like no, this is you starting the dialog and being as honest as you can with a potential client, so that they’re not surprised when they finally meet with you. Because you’re looking for a good fit, and that’s just what they’re looking for.

 

Liath Dalton 

Yes, that that it should be like the main takeaway from this episode, honestly.

 

Liath Dalton 

Which leads us into our don’t number four, which is, don’t write your content for AI or SEO. And SEO, I realize I didn’t actually explain that acronym, means Search Engine Optimization.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah, yeah. It’s the belief that we can be so clever as to outwit this black box operation that is the Google search. And I’ve seen it, and always makes my eye roll. And you’re like, just be honest, be real. That’s, that’s all you can be at the end of the day.

 

Liath Dalton 

And isn’t that a lot less exhausting?

 

Evan Dumas 

Hopefully, if it is, well, then you got to talk to somebody.

 

Liath Dalton 

So you don’t want to be keyword stuffing and like being being gimmicky or just using professional jargon. Don’t chase trends, don’t write for AI, write for humans.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah, we’re not at the point where we have therapy for AI yet. So that would be like a future, future episode, hopefully. But yeah, we’re not there yet.

 

Liath Dalton 

Oh my gosh, that is another sidebar. Makes me think of a story I heard on the radio the other day about this new platform where AI bots are basically interacting with each other. Wild.

 

Evan Dumas 

Mhm yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

Yeah.

 

Evan Dumas 

Computers talking to computers.

 

Liath Dalton 

Yes. Okay, so we’ve just got a couple more to get through.

 

Liath Dalton 

Do number five is maintain ownership of your professional presence.

 

Evan Dumas 

Mhm, yep.

 

Liath Dalton 

You, you want to know who controls your profiles, your intake pathways, your phone numbers and emails.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

Be really cautious with platform managed listings.

 

Evan Dumas 

Oh yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

There, unfortunately are a lot of horror stories about that, including, gosh, the sort of gamut from not releasing control of, or updating profiles appropriately, or like turning over the keys to the profiles, if a provider leaves one of those platforms.

 

Evan Dumas 

Woof.

 

Liath Dalton 

Fake profiles for established clinicians, then leading back to these platform sites, where then clients are getting matched with a different provider.

 

Evan Dumas 

Sneaky.

 

Liath Dalton 

Oh, my goodness, so many things. So be be really cautious with the platform managed listing listings. And just, sort of, a good rule of thumb there is, if you don’t control the system, you are at risk.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah, yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

So don’t sign visibility away without understanding the trade offs.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah, no.

 

Liath Dalton 

Managed does not always, or I would kind of say, often, mean better and the convenience can really come at the cost of accuracy and authentic reflection of you as as a provider.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah. And why would you do it anyway? If what you want is a clear, consistent message that doesn’t change, what are these people going to be doing if you have them manage your stuff anyways? Because if it’s not changing, they’re not going to be updating it much. Thus, have something nice and static that you’re in control over.

 

Liath Dalton 

Yes, yes, absolutely.

 

Liath Dalton 

Another note in terms of the sort of visibility, that if you do any kind of psychoeducation, or have published, or even just write some blog posts around the areas of practice that you’re most interested in, or have given any CE trainings on clinical content that relates to your clinical specialty and niche of practice, if you have written a really thoughtful about you,

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah, yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

those, those sorts of things can really support your visibility. Because when, and this is in terms of both humans and AI, but interestingly, AI tools are a lot more likely to surface therapists who explain and teach about XYZ than a therapist who advertises, XY and Z.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

 

Liath Dalton 

In a weird way, I feel like we’re getting back to some of the more like human or just rational, common sense ways of presenting what is provided, and than, than has been the case over the last few years.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah, hopefully, yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

I mean, we’ll see how it will see how it evolves. But at the moment, I think this is a lot better than thinking that the reality to being able to be found is either through a ubiquitous directory like Psychology Today or having to get an SEO specialist to charge a fortune to manage your website and web presence, right?

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah, yeah nuh-uh.

 

Liath Dalton 

I think this is a lot preferable. Like, just be authentic and direct and clear, and that’ll that’ll yield results.

 

Liath Dalton 

Okay, so lastly, and this should be evident by now, but don’t try to get recommended by the AI or ChatGPT. Don’t try to manipulate it. Don’t overclaim expertise. I mean that that goes without saying, but it’s really, really important. Again, don’t have AI write what is going to be your web presence, and please don’t abandon your human referral relationships and relationship networks.

 

Evan Dumas 

Oh no.

 

Liath Dalton 

I think those are increasingly important. They’ve always been centrally important, but I think they’re increasingly important.

 

Liath Dalton 

All right, check out the show notes for a sort of expanded list of the do’s and don’ts so you can work through, kind of a chunk at a time. You don’t have to become a marketing expert, you don’t need to chase AI.

 

Evan Dumas 

No.

 

Liath Dalton 

All you need to do is be clear, accurate and findable. And really that then translates to being understandable to people, and in the context of AI, the tools that people are using to help them make decisions, right?

 

Liath Dalton 

So we hope you have found this helpful and reassuring and taking some of the concern out of how to navigate the changes, because I think it’s a lot more navigable than if we had said the answer is to really get your SEO cracking.

 

Evan Dumas 

I think so, yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

So thanks for listening, and we will chat to you next week.

 

Evan Dumas 

Yeah, talk to you next week, everybody.

 

Liath Dalton 

This has been Group Practice Tech. You can find us at personcenteredtech.com. For more podcast episodes, you can go to personcenteredtech.com/podcast or click podcast on the menu bar.